1 00:00:16,130 --> 00:00:01,670 [Music] 2 00:00:24,020 --> 00:00:16,140 [Applause] 3 00:00:34,069 --> 00:00:24,030 [Music] 4 00:00:36,770 --> 00:00:34,079 welcome back to the UFO Rabbit Hole 5 00:00:39,049 --> 00:00:36,780 podcast I'm your host Kelly Chase 6 00:00:42,410 --> 00:00:39,059 in this episode I've had the pleasure of 7 00:00:44,270 --> 00:00:42,420 speaking with Dr Avi Loeb Dr Loeb was 8 00:00:46,369 --> 00:00:44,280 the longest serving chair of Harvard's 9 00:00:50,029 --> 00:00:46,379 Department of astronomy from 2011 to 10 00:00:51,650 --> 00:00:50,039 2020. in 2020 he was sworn in as a 11 00:00:54,590 --> 00:00:51,660 member of the president's Council of 12 00:00:57,049 --> 00:00:54,600 advisors on science and technology and 13 00:00:59,150 --> 00:00:57,059 most relevant to today's conversation he 14 00:01:02,029 --> 00:00:59,160 is also currently the head of Harvard's 15 00:01:03,889 --> 00:01:02,039 Galileo project whose mission is the 16 00:01:05,509 --> 00:01:03,899 systematic scientific search for 17 00:01:08,090 --> 00:01:05,519 evidence of extraterrestrial 18 00:01:10,490 --> 00:01:08,100 technological artifacts 19 00:01:12,289 --> 00:01:10,500 more recently Dr Loeb has been in the 20 00:01:14,149 --> 00:01:12,299 news as a result of an article that he 21 00:01:16,609 --> 00:01:14,159 recently published alongside the 22 00:01:19,130 --> 00:01:16,619 director of the new all domain anomaly 23 00:01:21,950 --> 00:01:19,140 resolution office or Arrow Sean 24 00:01:24,289 --> 00:01:21,960 Kirkpatrick regarding the possibility of 25 00:01:27,469 --> 00:01:24,299 an alien Mothership in our solar system 26 00:01:29,330 --> 00:01:27,479 that created quite a stir and of course 27 00:01:31,190 --> 00:01:29,340 as you'll recall from my recent 28 00:01:34,310 --> 00:01:31,200 conversation with Christopher sharp of 29 00:01:35,929 --> 00:01:34,320 Liberation times Sean Kirkpatrick just 30 00:01:37,609 --> 00:01:35,939 testified in front of the Senate 31 00:01:40,550 --> 00:01:37,619 subcommittee on emerging threats and 32 00:01:42,830 --> 00:01:40,560 capabilities back in April as a result 33 00:01:44,870 --> 00:01:42,840 over the last few weeks there's been a 34 00:01:46,550 --> 00:01:44,880 lot of talk in the community about the 35 00:01:49,130 --> 00:01:46,560 relationship between arrow and the 36 00:01:51,350 --> 00:01:49,140 Galileo project with many expressing 37 00:01:54,109 --> 00:01:51,360 concern that the involvement between the 38 00:01:55,969 --> 00:01:54,119 two might eventually hinder the Galileo 39 00:01:58,310 --> 00:01:55,979 Project's ability to independently 40 00:02:00,350 --> 00:01:58,320 report their findings to the public 41 00:02:02,990 --> 00:02:00,360 there have also been questions about how 42 00:02:05,270 --> 00:02:03,000 the Galileo project may be intentionally 43 00:02:07,490 --> 00:02:05,280 or not propping up and lending 44 00:02:09,109 --> 00:02:07,500 credibility to arrow in a way that may 45 00:02:10,850 --> 00:02:09,119 not be reflective of its actionable 46 00:02:12,170 --> 00:02:10,860 level of scientific rigor and 47 00:02:14,270 --> 00:02:12,180 transparency 48 00:02:16,010 --> 00:02:14,280 after certain statements made by Sean 49 00:02:17,809 --> 00:02:16,020 Kirkpatrick in front of the Senate 50 00:02:20,630 --> 00:02:17,819 subcommittee that were perceived by many 51 00:02:23,210 --> 00:02:20,640 to be an obfuscation if not an outright 52 00:02:25,910 --> 00:02:23,220 denial of the facts this has become a 53 00:02:27,410 --> 00:02:25,920 particular concern I asked Dr Loeb about 54 00:02:29,510 --> 00:02:27,420 some of these issues in this interview 55 00:02:31,430 --> 00:02:29,520 and I would like to thank him for being 56 00:02:33,830 --> 00:02:31,440 willing to answer these questions so 57 00:02:35,990 --> 00:02:33,840 thoughtfully and directly and I'll say 58 00:02:38,089 --> 00:02:36,000 that overall I found his statements on 59 00:02:38,990 --> 00:02:38,099 these topics to be well reasoned and 60 00:02:40,850 --> 00:02:39,000 credible 61 00:02:43,250 --> 00:02:40,860 obviously though you should listen for 62 00:02:44,690 --> 00:02:43,260 yourself and make your own determination 63 00:02:46,610 --> 00:02:44,700 but I think that something that is 64 00:02:49,190 --> 00:02:46,620 important to understand as you listen to 65 00:02:51,710 --> 00:02:49,200 Dr Loeb is what the Galileo project 66 00:02:53,509 --> 00:02:51,720 actually is and how it goes about 67 00:02:55,670 --> 00:02:53,519 pursuing its mission 68 00:02:58,130 --> 00:02:55,680 there is a tendency in the community to 69 00:03:00,650 --> 00:02:58,140 project onto the Galileo project what we 70 00:03:02,390 --> 00:03:00,660 want it to be how we want it to operate 71 00:03:04,790 --> 00:03:02,400 and the kinds of things that we'd like 72 00:03:07,250 --> 00:03:04,800 it to pursue based on our own beliefs 73 00:03:09,350 --> 00:03:07,260 and pet theories and often these 74 00:03:11,570 --> 00:03:09,360 projections are created with very little 75 00:03:14,089 --> 00:03:11,580 awareness of how a scientific Endeavor 76 00:03:16,910 --> 00:03:14,099 like this actually is conducted 77 00:03:19,309 --> 00:03:16,920 you can't do real science by casting the 78 00:03:21,890 --> 00:03:19,319 widest possible net the scientific 79 00:03:24,050 --> 00:03:21,900 method requires a process of winnowing 80 00:03:26,809 --> 00:03:24,060 down of getting increasingly granular 81 00:03:29,210 --> 00:03:26,819 and isolating variables it involves 82 00:03:32,210 --> 00:03:29,220 asking very specific questions within 83 00:03:34,850 --> 00:03:32,220 very specific parameters in the Galileo 84 00:03:36,770 --> 00:03:34,860 project is doing exactly that by very 85 00:03:39,050 --> 00:03:36,780 specifically looking for technological 86 00:03:41,330 --> 00:03:39,060 objects that have come within near earth 87 00:03:42,649 --> 00:03:41,340 range from somewhere outside of our 88 00:03:45,410 --> 00:03:42,659 solar system 89 00:03:47,149 --> 00:03:45,420 it's fascinating and tantalizing work 90 00:03:49,610 --> 00:03:47,159 and as you'll hear in this interview 91 00:03:52,309 --> 00:03:49,620 they have some very serious leads to 92 00:03:54,170 --> 00:03:52,319 pursue if Dr Loeb and his team are 93 00:03:56,270 --> 00:03:54,180 successful what they will have 94 00:03:59,030 --> 00:03:56,280 accomplished will be of monumental 95 00:04:00,890 --> 00:03:59,040 importance they will have proven the 96 00:04:03,170 --> 00:04:00,900 existence of other intelligent 97 00:04:07,610 --> 00:04:03,180 technological civilizations within the 98 00:04:10,250 --> 00:04:07,620 universe and that's huge obviously but 99 00:04:12,289 --> 00:04:10,260 we also need to recognize that there are 100 00:04:14,990 --> 00:04:12,299 a lot of things that by the very nature 101 00:04:17,330 --> 00:04:15,000 of their scientific organization they 102 00:04:19,490 --> 00:04:17,340 are not investigating which includes 103 00:04:21,530 --> 00:04:19,500 most of the other established hypotheses 104 00:04:23,210 --> 00:04:21,540 for the origins of the UFO phenomenon 105 00:04:25,249 --> 00:04:23,220 that we've already discussed on this 106 00:04:27,050 --> 00:04:25,259 podcast they are very specifically 107 00:04:29,450 --> 00:04:27,060 looking for extraterrestrial 108 00:04:32,030 --> 00:04:29,460 technological civilizations from another 109 00:04:35,090 --> 00:04:32,040 solar system and if they find that 110 00:04:38,629 --> 00:04:35,100 evidence it may or may not explain part 111 00:04:41,390 --> 00:04:38,639 or all of the UFO phenomenon because as 112 00:04:43,310 --> 00:04:41,400 Dr Loeb points out in this episode if 113 00:04:46,189 --> 00:04:43,320 something is coming here from somewhere 114 00:04:48,170 --> 00:04:46,199 deep in space it very well could be from 115 00:04:49,790 --> 00:04:48,180 a civilization that was wiped out a 116 00:04:52,490 --> 00:04:49,800 billion years ago 117 00:04:54,590 --> 00:04:52,500 so while I find Dr Love's responses to 118 00:04:57,110 --> 00:04:54,600 my questions to be logical and 119 00:04:59,510 --> 00:04:57,120 legitimate and fair it does call into 120 00:05:01,850 --> 00:04:59,520 question for me why it is that Arrow 121 00:05:03,469 --> 00:05:01,860 seems so eager to align itself with the 122 00:05:06,170 --> 00:05:03,479 Galileo project 123 00:05:08,330 --> 00:05:06,180 the UFO phenomenon very clearly seems to 124 00:05:10,850 --> 00:05:08,340 be the result of an intelligence that is 125 00:05:13,310 --> 00:05:10,860 very much local to and present on Earth 126 00:05:15,290 --> 00:05:13,320 as Avi himself points out in this 127 00:05:17,689 --> 00:05:15,300 episode there is a one-to-one 128 00:05:20,930 --> 00:05:17,699 correlation between population density 129 00:05:22,730 --> 00:05:20,940 and UFO sightings which suggests that 130 00:05:25,670 --> 00:05:22,740 this is happening all the time 131 00:05:27,770 --> 00:05:25,680 everywhere on the planet the idea that 132 00:05:29,870 --> 00:05:27,780 we're going to be able to explain even a 133 00:05:32,090 --> 00:05:29,880 fraction of those sightings with probes 134 00:05:34,610 --> 00:05:32,100 coming from millions or even billions of 135 00:05:37,249 --> 00:05:34,620 light years away is certainly possible 136 00:05:39,830 --> 00:05:37,259 but it also seems pretty unlikely given 137 00:05:43,129 --> 00:05:39,840 the ubiquity of the UFO presence 138 00:05:45,529 --> 00:05:43,139 so to me this alignment between arrow 139 00:05:47,570 --> 00:05:45,539 and the Galileo project seems like more 140 00:05:49,670 --> 00:05:47,580 of the usual distraction and sleight of 141 00:05:51,469 --> 00:05:49,680 hand on behalf of the government in 142 00:05:54,650 --> 00:05:51,479 order to increasingly muddy the waters 143 00:05:57,490 --> 00:05:54,660 on the nature of the UFO phenomenon now 144 00:06:00,770 --> 00:05:57,500 I can't prove that it's just my opinion 145 00:06:03,050 --> 00:06:00,780 and as always I'd very much encourage 146 00:06:04,790 --> 00:06:03,060 you not to take my word for that look 147 00:06:05,870 --> 00:06:04,800 into this more deeply and decide for 148 00:06:07,790 --> 00:06:05,880 yourself 149 00:06:10,189 --> 00:06:07,800 but I will say this 150 00:06:13,010 --> 00:06:10,199 as we discussed back in episode 11 about 151 00:06:14,810 --> 00:06:13,020 the emergence of UFO lore our modern 152 00:06:16,430 --> 00:06:14,820 conception of the UFO phenomenon 153 00:06:18,529 --> 00:06:16,440 specifically that it represents 154 00:06:20,810 --> 00:06:18,539 extraterrestrial beings coming to Earth 155 00:06:23,990 --> 00:06:20,820 in saucer-shaped craft and sometimes 156 00:06:25,610 --> 00:06:24,000 abducting people is largely a result of 157 00:06:27,650 --> 00:06:25,620 how it has been betrayed by the 158 00:06:29,930 --> 00:06:27,660 government and in the media 159 00:06:32,330 --> 00:06:29,940 When the UFO phenomenon first emerged in 160 00:06:34,550 --> 00:06:32,340 the public awareness in 1947 the 161 00:06:37,370 --> 00:06:34,560 Extraterrestrial hypothesis was just one 162 00:06:39,770 --> 00:06:37,380 of many possible explanations but over 163 00:06:42,290 --> 00:06:39,780 time through repetition and constant 164 00:06:44,570 --> 00:06:42,300 association between the two the public 165 00:06:47,809 --> 00:06:44,580 at large have become conditioned to see 166 00:06:49,670 --> 00:06:47,819 UFOs and aliens as being one in the same 167 00:06:51,830 --> 00:06:49,680 to the point that it's hard for people 168 00:06:53,930 --> 00:06:51,840 new to this topic to even wrap their 169 00:06:55,370 --> 00:06:53,940 heads around the idea that it could be 170 00:06:58,610 --> 00:06:55,380 something else 171 00:07:00,230 --> 00:06:58,620 and while I'm not ruling anything out I 172 00:07:02,689 --> 00:07:00,240 think that the best argument against the 173 00:07:04,610 --> 00:07:02,699 Extraterrestrial hypothesis is that it's 174 00:07:06,890 --> 00:07:04,620 the only one that the government and by 175 00:07:08,150 --> 00:07:06,900 extension the media ever seem to 176 00:07:10,909 --> 00:07:08,160 acknowledge 177 00:07:13,430 --> 00:07:10,919 that said I have nothing but respect for 178 00:07:15,350 --> 00:07:13,440 what the Galileo project is doing I 179 00:07:17,150 --> 00:07:15,360 think it is of profound importance to 180 00:07:18,830 --> 00:07:17,160 our species as a whole and I wish them 181 00:07:19,969 --> 00:07:18,840 nothing but luck in success and the work 182 00:07:22,129 --> 00:07:19,979 that they're doing 183 00:07:24,469 --> 00:07:22,139 and if you'd like to hear more from the 184 00:07:26,930 --> 00:07:24,479 brilliant Dr Loeb he will be a speaker 185 00:07:28,670 --> 00:07:26,940 at contact in the desert happening June 186 00:07:31,370 --> 00:07:28,680 2nd through 4th in Indian Wells 187 00:07:33,469 --> 00:07:31,380 California they have a great lineup of 188 00:07:36,950 --> 00:07:33,479 speakers this year as well including 189 00:07:40,490 --> 00:07:36,960 Graham Hancock George Nori Richard Dolan 190 00:07:43,189 --> 00:07:40,500 Paul heineck Ben Hansen J Christopher 191 00:07:45,670 --> 00:07:43,199 King Cheryl and Linda Costa and many 192 00:07:48,350 --> 00:07:45,680 more tickets are on sale at contact 193 00:07:50,749 --> 00:07:48,360 inthedesert.com and the link is in the 194 00:07:53,629 --> 00:07:50,759 episode description alright without 195 00:07:55,730 --> 00:07:53,639 further Ado here is my conversation with 196 00:07:57,950 --> 00:07:55,740 Dr Avi Loeb 197 00:07:59,510 --> 00:07:57,960 the stated mission of the Galileo 198 00:08:00,950 --> 00:07:59,520 project is to bring the surge for 199 00:08:03,290 --> 00:08:00,960 extraterrestrial technological 200 00:08:05,210 --> 00:08:03,300 signatures of extraterrestrial 201 00:08:07,309 --> 00:08:05,220 technological civilizations from 202 00:08:09,350 --> 00:08:07,319 anecdotal observations and legends to 203 00:08:11,930 --> 00:08:09,360 the mainstream of transparent validated 204 00:08:13,309 --> 00:08:11,940 and systematic scientific research and I 205 00:08:15,110 --> 00:08:13,319 think it's really important to note that 206 00:08:17,029 --> 00:08:15,120 this effort is different from many other 207 00:08:18,950 --> 00:08:17,039 previous attempts to look for signs of 208 00:08:21,110 --> 00:08:18,960 extraterrestrial life because you're 209 00:08:24,050 --> 00:08:21,120 actually looking for physical objects as 210 00:08:27,050 --> 00:08:24,060 opposed to electromagnetic signals so 211 00:08:29,089 --> 00:08:27,060 the universe is a very big place so Dr 212 00:08:31,010 --> 00:08:29,099 Loeb where do you even begin looking 213 00:08:34,490 --> 00:08:31,020 when you're looking for signs of alien 214 00:08:37,430 --> 00:08:34,500 technology when we first obviously have 215 00:08:39,649 --> 00:08:37,440 to look in our backyard because Guided 216 00:08:42,290 --> 00:08:39,659 by experience when we go out to our 217 00:08:44,029 --> 00:08:42,300 backyard we often find the rocks that we 218 00:08:46,430 --> 00:08:44,039 are familiar with but every now and then 219 00:08:47,389 --> 00:08:46,440 we see a tennis ball that was thrown by 220 00:08:50,630 --> 00:08:47,399 a neighbor 221 00:08:53,449 --> 00:08:50,640 and in general it's good to check your 222 00:08:55,790 --> 00:08:53,459 backyard and especially the mailbox that 223 00:08:58,370 --> 00:08:55,800 you have in front of your house because 224 00:09:01,490 --> 00:08:58,380 there may be packages and the good news 225 00:09:03,769 --> 00:09:01,500 is the packages may have not arrived at 226 00:09:05,870 --> 00:09:03,779 the time that the sender is alive the 227 00:09:07,790 --> 00:09:05,880 sender may be dead by now and but they 228 00:09:10,730 --> 00:09:07,800 keep accumulating just like plastic in 229 00:09:12,530 --> 00:09:10,740 the ocean and interestingly enough we 230 00:09:15,470 --> 00:09:12,540 haven't checked our backyard until the 231 00:09:18,949 --> 00:09:15,480 last decade so when Enrico Fermi asked 232 00:09:21,470 --> 00:09:18,959 where is everybody he was a bit lazy he 233 00:09:23,750 --> 00:09:21,480 was looking around himself there in Los 234 00:09:25,310 --> 00:09:23,760 Alamos at lunch time and asking where 235 00:09:27,829 --> 00:09:25,320 where are our neighbors I don't see 236 00:09:29,630 --> 00:09:27,839 anyone but that's presumptuous because 237 00:09:31,490 --> 00:09:29,640 why would they come exactly to Los 238 00:09:33,650 --> 00:09:31,500 Alamos exactly at the time that he is 239 00:09:36,230 --> 00:09:33,660 having lunch over there and the age of 240 00:09:38,030 --> 00:09:36,240 the universe is 13.8 billion years most 241 00:09:40,370 --> 00:09:38,040 stars from billions of years before the 242 00:09:42,530 --> 00:09:40,380 sun and it's quite likely that if there 243 00:09:45,470 --> 00:09:42,540 were technological civilization they 244 00:09:47,329 --> 00:09:45,480 died by now we will probably not survive 245 00:09:50,449 --> 00:09:47,339 on Earth within a billion years because 246 00:09:51,889 --> 00:09:50,459 the sun will boil off all the oceans on 247 00:09:54,170 --> 00:09:51,899 Earth within a billionaires it will 248 00:09:57,290 --> 00:09:54,180 brighten up so the idea is it's much 249 00:09:59,449 --> 00:09:57,300 better not to search for radio signals 250 00:10:02,329 --> 00:09:59,459 the way we did for 70 years the way the 251 00:10:04,630 --> 00:10:02,339 City Community did because this is just 252 00:10:06,889 --> 00:10:04,640 like waiting for a phone call at home 253 00:10:09,769 --> 00:10:06,899 nobody may call you at the time that 254 00:10:11,990 --> 00:10:09,779 you're listening but if you check your 255 00:10:15,350 --> 00:10:12,000 mailbox for any packages you know these 256 00:10:17,389 --> 00:10:15,360 any chemical rocket that may have been 257 00:10:19,730 --> 00:10:17,399 launched over the past billions of years 258 00:10:21,829 --> 00:10:19,740 within the Milky Way galaxy did not 259 00:10:23,870 --> 00:10:21,839 escape from the Milky Way because its 260 00:10:26,329 --> 00:10:23,880 speed was an order of magnitude lower 261 00:10:29,090 --> 00:10:26,339 than the Escape speed from the gravity 262 00:10:31,070 --> 00:10:29,100 of the Milky Way so all these spacecraft 263 00:10:33,170 --> 00:10:31,080 must be still around they're moving 264 00:10:36,350 --> 00:10:33,180 within the Milky Way galaxy there may be 265 00:10:38,930 --> 00:10:36,360 space trash by now the way Voyager would 266 00:10:41,090 --> 00:10:38,940 be in a billion years but we could look 267 00:10:44,329 --> 00:10:41,100 for them and what intrigued me the most 268 00:10:46,970 --> 00:10:44,339 is that in 2017 we discovered the first 269 00:10:49,730 --> 00:10:46,980 object from outside the solar system the 270 00:10:52,610 --> 00:10:49,740 size of a football field and as you know 271 00:10:54,889 --> 00:10:52,620 the biggest rocket that we are aiming to 272 00:10:57,490 --> 00:10:54,899 launch right now is actually Starship 273 00:11:01,310 --> 00:10:57,500 and it's not as big as a football field 274 00:11:03,170 --> 00:11:01,320 and this first object was very weird it 275 00:11:05,150 --> 00:11:03,180 didn't look like the Rocks we had seen 276 00:11:07,970 --> 00:11:05,160 in the solar system before it was given 277 00:11:10,370 --> 00:11:07,980 the name of which means a scout in the 278 00:11:13,790 --> 00:11:10,380 Hawaiian language and it was most likely 279 00:11:16,009 --> 00:11:13,800 flat it had a very extreme shape based 280 00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:16,019 on the reflection of sunlight and was 281 00:11:19,730 --> 00:11:17,760 pushed away from the Sun by some 282 00:11:22,370 --> 00:11:19,740 mysterious Force without showing any 283 00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:22,380 commentary evaporation so it wasn't 284 00:11:26,449 --> 00:11:24,240 clear what it is it didn't look like an 285 00:11:28,850 --> 00:11:26,459 asteroid or a comet that we are familiar 286 00:11:30,650 --> 00:11:28,860 with and this is what intrigued me is an 287 00:11:33,470 --> 00:11:30,660 astronomer to start thinking about 288 00:11:35,530 --> 00:11:33,480 objects near Earth and together with my 289 00:11:38,210 --> 00:11:35,540 student we discovered two other 290 00:11:42,530 --> 00:11:38,220 Interstellar objects actually that 291 00:11:45,230 --> 00:11:42,540 arrived to Earth before one in 2014 and 292 00:11:48,410 --> 00:11:45,240 the other one seven months before Momoa 293 00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:48,420 in 2017 and there were meteors they just 294 00:11:54,410 --> 00:11:51,360 collided with Earth roughly the size of 295 00:11:57,470 --> 00:11:54,420 half a meter to a meter so much smaller 296 00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:57,480 than a Momoa by a factor of 200 but they 297 00:12:02,269 --> 00:12:00,240 were weird in their own way they were 298 00:12:05,389 --> 00:12:02,279 tougher than all the meteors ever 299 00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:05,399 recorded in the NASA catalog of 300 00:12:10,970 --> 00:12:08,399 fireballs over the past decade and that 301 00:12:13,630 --> 00:12:10,980 made them tougher by at least an order 302 00:12:17,090 --> 00:12:13,640 of magnitude than even iron meteorites 303 00:12:19,370 --> 00:12:17,100 and so it's very peculiar what are these 304 00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:19,380 first Interstellar objects that look so 305 00:12:23,870 --> 00:12:21,600 different than the Rocks we are used to 306 00:12:26,509 --> 00:12:23,880 which leads to the possibility that they 307 00:12:29,930 --> 00:12:26,519 might be artificial in origin spacecraft 308 00:12:33,889 --> 00:12:29,940 perhaps and we are going to the Pacific 309 00:12:36,170 --> 00:12:33,899 Ocean in a few months in summer 2023 to 310 00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:36,180 retrieve any relics from the first 311 00:12:41,150 --> 00:12:39,180 Interstellar meteor and stay tuned I 312 00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:41,160 mean we will be able to examine the 313 00:12:46,370 --> 00:12:43,200 composition of the fragments if we find 314 00:12:49,069 --> 00:12:46,380 any I very much hope we will find and 315 00:12:51,230 --> 00:12:49,079 that's what led me to this that's really 316 00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:51,240 interesting when I let people know that 317 00:12:55,009 --> 00:12:52,800 I was going to be interviewing you some 318 00:12:56,750 --> 00:12:55,019 of the most common questions that I got 319 00:12:58,970 --> 00:12:56,760 were about that expedition I know people 320 00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:58,980 are very excited about it one of the 321 00:13:03,170 --> 00:13:00,959 questions I got the most was how do you 322 00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:03,180 retrieve an Interstellar object like 323 00:13:06,050 --> 00:13:04,800 that from the ocean floor can you tell 324 00:13:08,990 --> 00:13:06,060 us how you're even able to spot 325 00:13:11,810 --> 00:13:09,000 something like that right so as a result 326 00:13:14,569 --> 00:13:11,820 of friction with air this object the 327 00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:14,579 disintegrated it basically created a 328 00:13:19,310 --> 00:13:16,860 fireball that's how it was discovered by 329 00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:19,320 a sensors that the US government owns 330 00:13:24,829 --> 00:13:21,600 either satellites or ground-based 331 00:13:28,370 --> 00:13:24,839 seismometers or other means so the 332 00:13:30,410 --> 00:13:28,380 fireball implies that it exploded and it 333 00:13:33,290 --> 00:13:30,420 released a few percent of the energy 334 00:13:35,090 --> 00:13:33,300 output of the Hiroshima atomic bomb and 335 00:13:38,569 --> 00:13:35,100 this was an object roughly the size of 336 00:13:41,569 --> 00:13:38,579 half a meter or so almost any material 337 00:13:43,610 --> 00:13:41,579 would disintegrate basically melt with 338 00:13:47,210 --> 00:13:43,620 so much energy being released from the 339 00:13:49,550 --> 00:13:47,220 friction with air and we know that it 340 00:13:51,470 --> 00:13:49,560 was very tough because it survived all 341 00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:51,480 the way down to the lower atmosphere of 342 00:13:57,769 --> 00:13:54,240 the earth roughly 10 kilometers above 343 00:14:00,170 --> 00:13:57,779 the ocean surface and we know that it 344 00:14:02,569 --> 00:14:00,180 the stress on the object was extremely 345 00:14:03,410 --> 00:14:02,579 high because it was moving fast very 346 00:14:07,009 --> 00:14:03,420 fast 347 00:14:08,930 --> 00:14:07,019 at about 40 kilometers per second and 348 00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:08,940 moreover the lower atmosphere of the 349 00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:11,040 earth is very dense so that's how we 350 00:14:16,129 --> 00:14:13,440 figure that it must have been tougher 351 00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:16,139 than iron and then the expectation I 352 00:14:21,050 --> 00:14:17,760 mean we don't really know what it's made 353 00:14:22,910 --> 00:14:21,060 of but if you imagine an iron meteorite 354 00:14:25,730 --> 00:14:22,920 under these circumstances it would 355 00:14:29,090 --> 00:14:25,740 basically melt and you would end up with 356 00:14:32,690 --> 00:14:29,100 droplets the size of the head of a pin a 357 00:14:36,530 --> 00:14:32,700 millimeter in size or so and they would 358 00:14:38,269 --> 00:14:36,540 drain down just like hot rain and when 359 00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,279 they meet the ocean surface they would 360 00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:40,560 raise some steam but then they would 361 00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:43,260 sink to the bottom of the ocean now we 362 00:14:47,449 --> 00:14:45,120 don't know what it was made of but if it 363 00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:47,459 was made of material that is magnetic 364 00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:49,440 that responds to a magnet 365 00:14:55,970 --> 00:14:52,800 what we produced already is a sled with 366 00:14:58,910 --> 00:14:55,980 magnets that would basically hover above 367 00:15:01,250 --> 00:14:58,920 the ocean surface and attract all these 368 00:15:04,009 --> 00:15:01,260 particles that are magnetized the ocean 369 00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:04,019 surface is muck it's just mud it's not 370 00:15:09,769 --> 00:15:07,920 really magnetic and so we hope that we 371 00:15:14,090 --> 00:15:09,779 will be able to separate those particles 372 00:15:15,949 --> 00:15:14,100 that might be magnetic from the mac and 373 00:15:19,629 --> 00:15:15,959 it's sort of like a needle in a haystack 374 00:15:21,650 --> 00:15:19,639 but the background is mud so it could be 375 00:15:23,930 --> 00:15:21,660 straightforward to attract magnetic 376 00:15:26,810 --> 00:15:23,940 particles the only question is are there 377 00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:26,820 magnetic particles that will contaminate 378 00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:28,800 our sample that are from terrestrial 379 00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:30,959 origin and we'll be able to figure it 380 00:15:35,569 --> 00:15:32,880 out based on the composition 381 00:15:36,949 --> 00:15:35,579 and then if it's not magnetic there is a 382 00:15:40,009 --> 00:15:36,959 question how do we pick up those 383 00:15:42,590 --> 00:15:40,019 fragments and the idea there is that we 384 00:15:45,050 --> 00:15:42,600 have also a sluicing device which is 385 00:15:47,509 --> 00:15:45,060 similar to the way you look for gold 386 00:15:49,790 --> 00:15:47,519 which is based on the density of the 387 00:15:51,710 --> 00:15:49,800 particles so we want to separate those 388 00:15:53,750 --> 00:15:51,720 particles that are lock magnetic 389 00:15:57,410 --> 00:15:53,760 assuming that there are higher density 390 00:15:59,810 --> 00:15:57,420 because we know the object was tough wow 391 00:16:01,490 --> 00:15:59,820 well I there's so many people I know who 392 00:16:03,470 --> 00:16:01,500 are wishing you the best of luck in 393 00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:03,480 finding it that's absolutely fascinating 394 00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:04,980 and we can't wait to hear what you find 395 00:16:09,889 --> 00:16:07,680 there now obviously in that case we're 396 00:16:12,350 --> 00:16:09,899 talking about an Interstellar object so 397 00:16:14,509 --> 00:16:12,360 if you were to find evidence that it was 398 00:16:16,009 --> 00:16:14,519 somehow technological this object 399 00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:16,019 whatever it is then obviously it would 400 00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:18,240 be extraterrestrial kind of by 401 00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:20,639 definition but if we're looking in 402 00:16:25,790 --> 00:16:22,560 another situation if you found something 403 00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:25,800 that was a near-earth object or even 404 00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:27,839 something potentially that you found on 405 00:16:31,850 --> 00:16:30,240 Earth what are the standards that you 406 00:16:34,250 --> 00:16:31,860 would then use to try to determine 407 00:16:37,370 --> 00:16:34,260 whether or not this was extraterrestrial 408 00:16:40,490 --> 00:16:37,380 or perhaps from some other origin 409 00:16:43,610 --> 00:16:40,500 we know the composition of solar system 410 00:16:47,449 --> 00:16:43,620 objects there are many meteors on Earth 411 00:16:50,210 --> 00:16:47,459 that were analyzed but also cometary 412 00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:50,220 material of comets that we look at or 413 00:16:56,509 --> 00:16:53,040 even asteroids there was a mission of 414 00:16:59,689 --> 00:16:56,519 NASA called the Osiris rex that landed 415 00:17:02,030 --> 00:16:59,699 on the asteroid Ben when material from 416 00:17:03,889 --> 00:17:02,040 it will be brought to Earth we pretty 417 00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:03,899 much know what the solar system is made 418 00:17:08,449 --> 00:17:06,480 of because those asteroids or comets 419 00:17:11,390 --> 00:17:08,459 they were the building blocks that made 420 00:17:12,650 --> 00:17:11,400 the planets and that means that the same 421 00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:12,660 isotope 422 00:17:18,110 --> 00:17:15,600 that we find on Earth and on other 423 00:17:19,669 --> 00:17:18,120 planets so should be found also on 424 00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:19,679 objects that belong to the solar system 425 00:17:25,309 --> 00:17:21,839 it is it was all part of the same cloud 426 00:17:27,949 --> 00:17:25,319 of gas that was local and condensed to 427 00:17:30,350 --> 00:17:27,959 make the sun and the debris from the Sun 428 00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:30,360 and made the planets and all these rocks 429 00:17:36,169 --> 00:17:33,120 that were just like Lego pieces were put 430 00:17:38,750 --> 00:17:36,179 together to make the rocky planets so we 431 00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:38,760 know pretty much what the composition of 432 00:17:44,029 --> 00:17:42,000 the solar system is and it should be 433 00:17:45,770 --> 00:17:44,039 straightforward to tell the difference 434 00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:45,780 between something that came from outside 435 00:17:50,210 --> 00:17:46,980 because 436 00:17:52,250 --> 00:17:50,220 if it went through Interstellar space it 437 00:17:54,890 --> 00:17:52,260 must have originated in far away because 438 00:17:58,010 --> 00:17:54,900 most of the stars are far away most of 439 00:18:00,590 --> 00:17:58,020 the volume that contains stars in the 440 00:18:02,630 --> 00:18:00,600 Milky Way galaxy is far away so if you 441 00:18:04,669 --> 00:18:02,640 just do the statistics it's most likely 442 00:18:07,070 --> 00:18:04,679 that such an object came from very far 443 00:18:09,650 --> 00:18:07,080 away like tens of thousands of light 444 00:18:11,810 --> 00:18:09,660 years away in the conditions there were 445 00:18:14,210 --> 00:18:11,820 quite different because there was a 446 00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:14,220 different supernovae a different star 447 00:18:18,650 --> 00:18:16,320 that exploded in the vicinity of where 448 00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:18,660 the object came from and therefore the 449 00:18:22,730 --> 00:18:20,640 Isotopes would be different than the 450 00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:22,740 ones the Rashi of Isotopes the 451 00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:24,480 abundances of elements would be 452 00:18:29,029 --> 00:18:26,400 different from the one we find in the 453 00:18:31,490 --> 00:18:29,039 solar system and as a result we can tell 454 00:18:33,950 --> 00:18:31,500 the difference the only caveat that I 455 00:18:35,630 --> 00:18:33,960 would mention is that in the outer parts 456 00:18:37,970 --> 00:18:35,640 of the solar system there is the 457 00:18:40,430 --> 00:18:37,980 so-called old Cloud which contains 458 00:18:43,549 --> 00:18:40,440 objects that are very Loosely bound to 459 00:18:46,130 --> 00:18:43,559 the Sun and when stars are passing by 460 00:18:48,590 --> 00:18:46,140 they can dislodge some of these 461 00:18:51,049 --> 00:18:48,600 peripheral aerial objects from the solar 462 00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:51,059 system but they can also deliver objects 463 00:18:56,450 --> 00:18:53,460 from other stars to the vicinity of the 464 00:18:58,370 --> 00:18:56,460 outskirts of the solar system and so if 465 00:19:00,770 --> 00:18:58,380 there is an object that comes from the 466 00:19:02,750 --> 00:19:00,780 sort of periphery of the solar system it 467 00:19:06,110 --> 00:19:02,760 could have been borrowed from a passing 468 00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:06,120 star but what we know about this meteor 469 00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:08,400 is that it actually was not Loosely 470 00:19:12,770 --> 00:19:10,260 bound to the sun in fact it was moving 471 00:19:16,010 --> 00:19:12,780 at 60 kilometers per second outside the 472 00:19:18,529 --> 00:19:16,020 solar system faster than 95 percent of 473 00:19:21,230 --> 00:19:18,539 all the stars in the vicinity of the Sun 474 00:19:24,590 --> 00:19:21,240 and that means that it didn't originate 475 00:19:26,270 --> 00:19:24,600 most likely at the 90 95 confidence it 476 00:19:28,909 --> 00:19:26,280 didn't originate from any of the nearby 477 00:19:31,549 --> 00:19:28,919 stars and so it must have arrived from 478 00:19:33,529 --> 00:19:31,559 far away and that makes it quite 479 00:19:35,690 --> 00:19:33,539 different than anything we find in the 480 00:19:38,270 --> 00:19:35,700 solar system that's really interesting 481 00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:38,280 How likely is it that an object like 482 00:19:43,870 --> 00:19:40,799 that could get kicked up and sent that 483 00:19:46,970 --> 00:19:43,880 far to an entirely different star system 484 00:19:49,370 --> 00:19:46,980 is that something that happens commonly 485 00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,380 or is that something that's really rare 486 00:19:54,169 --> 00:19:51,360 well that's a very interesting question 487 00:19:58,130 --> 00:19:54,179 in fact 10 years before omuamoah was 488 00:20:01,370 --> 00:19:58,140 discovered around 2007 I wrote the first 489 00:20:03,650 --> 00:20:01,380 paper that price to forecast how many 490 00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:03,660 rocks we expect from other stars based 491 00:20:07,490 --> 00:20:04,980 on what we know in the solar system 492 00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:07,500 assuming that other planetary systems 493 00:20:12,590 --> 00:20:10,559 are the same as the solar system and we 494 00:20:15,169 --> 00:20:12,600 predicted that the telescope in Hawaii 495 00:20:18,529 --> 00:20:15,179 that discovered will not see anything 496 00:20:20,510 --> 00:20:18,539 and that was a safe bet by a factor of a 497 00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:20,520 hundred to a hundred million basically 498 00:20:25,610 --> 00:20:22,799 there wouldn't be enough rocks for it to 499 00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:25,620 see and the same applies for the meteors 500 00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:27,600 we didn't expect any meteors from 501 00:20:33,650 --> 00:20:31,440 intestinal space within decades and the 502 00:20:36,830 --> 00:20:33,660 surprising fact is that we see we saw 503 00:20:38,690 --> 00:20:36,840 more we saw these meteors and that means 504 00:20:41,450 --> 00:20:38,700 that something is wrong in the mass 505 00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:41,460 budget calculation either other 506 00:20:46,669 --> 00:20:44,400 planetary systems eject a lot of rocks 507 00:20:49,630 --> 00:20:46,679 many more than expected from what we 508 00:20:53,150 --> 00:20:49,640 know about the solar system or 509 00:20:55,070 --> 00:20:53,160 perhaps you know these are artificial in 510 00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,080 order they were targeting the inner 511 00:21:00,890 --> 00:20:57,600 region of the solar system rather than 512 00:21:03,710 --> 00:21:00,900 spread randomly throughout space and I 513 00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:03,720 wouldn't cast any vote on that until we 514 00:21:09,770 --> 00:21:07,260 figure out what these objects are and it 515 00:21:12,529 --> 00:21:09,780 really surprising that so much material 516 00:21:15,710 --> 00:21:12,539 in fact if we take the meteors and ask 517 00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:15,720 if we estimate how much heavy elements 518 00:21:19,789 --> 00:21:17,520 if they are randomly distributed 519 00:21:22,190 --> 00:21:19,799 throughout the Galaxy how many how much 520 00:21:24,830 --> 00:21:22,200 of the heavy elements produced in the 521 00:21:27,049 --> 00:21:24,840 galaxy do they carry and we found that 522 00:21:29,450 --> 00:21:27,059 they carry a substantial fraction like a 523 00:21:31,250 --> 00:21:29,460 third of the heavy elements and then you 524 00:21:33,890 --> 00:21:31,260 ask yourself how is it possible that 525 00:21:37,549 --> 00:21:33,900 stars lose so much from their vicinity 526 00:21:39,710 --> 00:21:37,559 it's not at all clear but you know on 527 00:21:42,529 --> 00:21:39,720 the other hand I did a calculation that 528 00:21:45,470 --> 00:21:42,539 showed that if for example was pushed 529 00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:45,480 away from the sun because it was thin 530 00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:48,720 and it reflected sunlight and by the way 531 00:21:52,970 --> 00:21:50,880 this is the way that another object that 532 00:21:55,250 --> 00:21:52,980 was discovered in September 2020 was 533 00:21:57,890 --> 00:21:55,260 pushed away from the Sun they had thin 534 00:22:01,549 --> 00:21:57,900 walls it ended up being a rocket booster 535 00:22:03,710 --> 00:22:01,559 that NASA launched in 1966 rediscovered 536 00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:03,720 by the same telescope in Hawaii that 537 00:22:09,230 --> 00:22:04,880 discovered 538 00:22:11,810 --> 00:22:09,240 and in 2020 and it was given the name 539 00:22:14,210 --> 00:22:11,820 2020 or so and obviously it was 540 00:22:16,669 --> 00:22:14,220 artificial in origin and and I said in a 541 00:22:18,830 --> 00:22:16,679 recent paper I said well you know if for 542 00:22:21,770 --> 00:22:18,840 example if you imagine Dyson spheres 543 00:22:24,649 --> 00:22:21,780 these are Mega structures that advanced 544 00:22:27,169 --> 00:22:24,659 civilizations may put around stars to 545 00:22:30,049 --> 00:22:27,179 harvest their energy if they are made of 546 00:22:32,930 --> 00:22:30,059 tiles that are sort of floating above 547 00:22:36,110 --> 00:22:32,940 the star just like kites by radiation 548 00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:36,120 pressure balancing gravity so that would 549 00:22:41,149 --> 00:22:39,360 be this would be light sales basically 550 00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:41,159 hovering above the star and harvesting 551 00:22:45,649 --> 00:22:43,679 the energy then when the star brightens 552 00:22:47,810 --> 00:22:45,659 up it will push them away and very 553 00:22:51,049 --> 00:22:47,820 easily release them from the planetary 554 00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:51,059 system and as a result they might appear 555 00:22:58,490 --> 00:22:55,039 as Interstellar objects that behave like 556 00:23:01,490 --> 00:22:58,500 so maybe your moonwalk was a piece of a 557 00:23:02,990 --> 00:23:01,500 broken Dyson Sphere who knows wow that's 558 00:23:05,450 --> 00:23:03,000 fascinating 559 00:23:07,010 --> 00:23:05,460 so obviously you've got this fantastic 560 00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:07,020 lead that you're following with this 561 00:23:10,850 --> 00:23:08,640 Interstellar object that you're hoping 562 00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:10,860 to retrieve traces of from the Pacific 563 00:23:15,409 --> 00:23:13,440 Ocean which is the Galileo project have 564 00:23:16,610 --> 00:23:15,419 any other exciting leads that you're 565 00:23:19,850 --> 00:23:16,620 working on right now that you're able to 566 00:23:23,330 --> 00:23:19,860 share with us oh yeah so we have two 567 00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:23,340 other avenues that we do research on and 568 00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:26,880 one has to do with finding more objects 569 00:23:30,049 --> 00:23:27,919 like 570 00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:30,059 within a year there will be a new 571 00:23:36,890 --> 00:23:32,880 telescope in Chile called the Vera Rubin 572 00:23:39,770 --> 00:23:36,900 Observatory that has 3.2 billion pixels 573 00:23:42,890 --> 00:23:39,780 in its camera that's a thousand times 574 00:23:45,230 --> 00:23:42,900 more pixels than cell phones have and it 575 00:23:48,649 --> 00:23:45,240 would survey the southern Sky every four 576 00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:48,659 days and it has a good chance of finding 577 00:23:54,950 --> 00:23:51,679 a normal-like object every few months 578 00:23:57,470 --> 00:23:54,960 and then of course we need to identify 579 00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:57,480 those objects of interest and turns out 580 00:24:02,930 --> 00:24:00,080 that the astronomy Community not only 581 00:24:05,210 --> 00:24:02,940 ridicules the search for such object 582 00:24:07,789 --> 00:24:05,220 effects but also did not develop the 583 00:24:10,789 --> 00:24:07,799 software necessary to go through the 584 00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:10,799 pipeline of data from the very Rubin 585 00:24:15,049 --> 00:24:12,720 Observatory so we are doing it with my 586 00:24:18,110 --> 00:24:15,059 postdoc we developed the software that 587 00:24:19,610 --> 00:24:18,120 will identify Interstellar object and 588 00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:19,620 then of course we could look at them 589 00:24:25,610 --> 00:24:22,799 with a web telescope which is located at 590 00:24:27,470 --> 00:24:25,620 a million miles away from Earth so if we 591 00:24:30,350 --> 00:24:27,480 have the web telescope and a telescope 592 00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:30,360 on Earth looking at the same object they 593 00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:32,880 could in principle pinpoint the 594 00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:34,559 three-dimensional trajectory of the 595 00:24:39,409 --> 00:24:36,720 object very well it's called Parallax 596 00:24:41,810 --> 00:24:39,419 just like having two eyes looking at it 597 00:24:44,510 --> 00:24:41,820 at an object and being able to assess 598 00:24:46,490 --> 00:24:44,520 the distance so we can pinpoint the 599 00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:46,500 three-dimensional trajectory of such an 600 00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:48,720 object and then figure out whether it 601 00:24:53,810 --> 00:24:51,600 has any propulsion and moreover the web 602 00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:53,820 telescope could measure the infrared 603 00:24:59,630 --> 00:24:55,919 emission from the heat emitted by the 604 00:25:02,450 --> 00:24:59,640 object and from that infer it's an area 605 00:25:04,909 --> 00:25:02,460 and it's Albedo in terms of reflecting 606 00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:04,919 sunlight a lot of properties that were 607 00:25:09,230 --> 00:25:07,440 difficult to infer from Momoa so we have 608 00:25:11,270 --> 00:25:09,240 the web telescope we have the Vera Rubin 609 00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:11,280 Observatory that that's fantastic for 610 00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:13,200 the next objects to be found 611 00:25:17,810 --> 00:25:15,840 and then the second path of research for 612 00:25:20,029 --> 00:25:17,820 the Galileo project is looking for 613 00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:20,039 unidentified aerial phenomena that the 614 00:25:23,690 --> 00:25:22,320 US government talks about and there is 615 00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:23,700 obviously a new office in government 616 00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:27,600 that normally resolution all domain in 617 00:25:33,409 --> 00:25:30,720 all domain office Aero it's called and 618 00:25:37,130 --> 00:25:33,419 what it's doing right now is looking at 619 00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:37,140 the 650 or so events that were reported 620 00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:38,880 by military personnel intelligence 621 00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:41,520 agencies and trying to figure out what 622 00:25:47,570 --> 00:25:44,220 these objects were and you know looking 623 00:25:49,610 --> 00:25:47,580 at past reports that were anecdotal is 624 00:25:52,730 --> 00:25:49,620 obviously something to do but the 625 00:25:54,649 --> 00:25:52,740 frustrating aspect of that is if you see 626 00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:54,659 something interesting you can't go back 627 00:26:00,289 --> 00:25:57,360 in time and say I need more data on this 628 00:26:02,810 --> 00:26:00,299 thing and in order to figure it out you 629 00:26:05,810 --> 00:26:02,820 can't do that and so what the Galileo 630 00:26:07,370 --> 00:26:05,820 project is saying well first you know 631 00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:07,380 most of the interesting data in 632 00:26:12,169 --> 00:26:10,080 government is classified in the past 633 00:26:14,029 --> 00:26:12,179 people try to press the government to 634 00:26:16,370 --> 00:26:14,039 release such data and that's to me a 635 00:26:19,010 --> 00:26:16,380 waste of time because the data was 636 00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:19,020 collected by classified sensors but the 637 00:26:23,090 --> 00:26:21,360 good news is the sky is not classified 638 00:26:25,610 --> 00:26:23,100 so we can look at the sky that's what 639 00:26:26,810 --> 00:26:25,620 astronomers do for a living and that's 640 00:26:29,149 --> 00:26:26,820 what we are doing with the Galileo 641 00:26:31,789 --> 00:26:29,159 project we built a new Observatory at 642 00:26:35,630 --> 00:26:31,799 Harvard University that is functioning 643 00:26:38,330 --> 00:26:35,640 right now and collecting data 24 7 in 644 00:26:41,390 --> 00:26:38,340 the infrared Optical radio and audio 645 00:26:44,210 --> 00:26:41,400 and we are analyzing it the data with 646 00:26:45,950 --> 00:26:44,220 artificial intelligence software and I 647 00:26:49,130 --> 00:26:45,960 should say that within a few months or 648 00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:49,140 maybe a year we'll have much more data 649 00:26:53,870 --> 00:26:51,360 than was ever collected by all the 650 00:26:55,730 --> 00:26:53,880 reports in history because we are doing 651 00:26:58,430 --> 00:26:55,740 it routinely we are doing it with 652 00:27:00,049 --> 00:26:58,440 instruments that we fully understand and 653 00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:00,059 what you see in the past is people 654 00:27:06,049 --> 00:27:02,640 arguing with each other about 655 00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:06,059 interpretation of poor data uh you know 656 00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:09,179 fuzzy images blurry images people were 657 00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:11,520 expressing their views they were either 658 00:27:17,330 --> 00:27:15,480 Skeptics or Believers and the Skeptics 659 00:27:19,310 --> 00:27:17,340 would argue with the Believers forever 660 00:27:21,890 --> 00:27:19,320 and would say bad things about each 661 00:27:23,570 --> 00:27:21,900 other just like we see in politics you 662 00:27:25,970 --> 00:27:23,580 know you have the two extremes fighting 663 00:27:28,610 --> 00:27:25,980 with each other the problem the point is 664 00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:28,620 that in science if you collect good 665 00:27:33,529 --> 00:27:30,960 enough evidence then everyone would 666 00:27:36,289 --> 00:27:33,539 agree on what it means 667 00:27:38,570 --> 00:27:36,299 so instead of arguing and instead of 668 00:27:39,890 --> 00:27:38,580 believing or not believing something I 669 00:27:41,870 --> 00:27:39,900 mean it's not religion what we're 670 00:27:43,490 --> 00:27:41,880 talking about we can look at these 671 00:27:45,529 --> 00:27:43,500 objects and collect much better data 672 00:27:46,970 --> 00:27:45,539 with state-of-the-art instruments and 673 00:27:49,549 --> 00:27:46,980 that's what the gorilla project is doing 674 00:27:50,990 --> 00:27:49,559 we are already doing it and then in the 675 00:27:53,390 --> 00:27:51,000 coming months we're planning to build 676 00:27:56,210 --> 00:27:53,400 more copies of our observatory in at 677 00:27:58,610 --> 00:27:56,220 Harvard and the number of copies that we 678 00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:58,620 make will depend on how much funding We 679 00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:01,200 have basically we need tens of millions 680 00:28:06,649 --> 00:28:03,840 of dollars in order to have tens of 681 00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:06,659 observatories spread throughout the 682 00:28:11,390 --> 00:28:08,880 United States and collecting enough data 683 00:28:13,730 --> 00:28:11,400 within a year that would allow us to get 684 00:28:15,890 --> 00:28:13,740 to the bottom of this puzzle and we 685 00:28:20,390 --> 00:28:15,900 could tell whether we are looking at a 686 00:28:23,690 --> 00:28:20,400 balloon an airplane a bird or maybe 687 00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:23,700 something extraterrestrial amazing in 688 00:28:28,430 --> 00:28:26,159 the process of collecting that data if 689 00:28:30,409 --> 00:28:28,440 your work LED you to believe that the 690 00:28:31,490 --> 00:28:30,419 UAP data that you were looking at if it 691 00:28:34,190 --> 00:28:31,500 led you to believe that it was 692 00:28:36,169 --> 00:28:34,200 potentially of another origin that was 693 00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:36,179 not extraterrestrial like hypothetically 694 00:28:39,769 --> 00:28:38,640 uh foreign Nation or a breakaway 695 00:28:42,169 --> 00:28:39,779 civilization or one of the many 696 00:28:43,970 --> 00:28:42,179 hypotheses that's out there is that 697 00:28:45,890 --> 00:28:43,980 something that the Galileo project would 698 00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:45,900 pursue or are you strictly looking for 699 00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:47,279 evidence of extraterrestrial 700 00:28:52,490 --> 00:28:49,679 technological civilization 701 00:28:55,549 --> 00:28:52,500 so anything that is human made as far as 702 00:28:57,470 --> 00:28:55,559 I'm concerned is boring and perhaps to 703 00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:57,480 share that the data with the government 704 00:29:02,210 --> 00:29:00,240 without even looking at it anything that 705 00:29:03,710 --> 00:29:02,220 looks like a bird I know of some 706 00:29:05,870 --> 00:29:03,720 zoologist that would be extremely 707 00:29:09,110 --> 00:29:05,880 interesting it's again boring for me 708 00:29:11,570 --> 00:29:09,120 so we will obviously see anything in the 709 00:29:13,370 --> 00:29:11,580 sky but I would like to see if there is 710 00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:13,380 even if there is one object from 711 00:29:17,269 --> 00:29:14,940 extraterrestrial origin that will be 712 00:29:20,029 --> 00:29:17,279 fascinating and obviously extremely 713 00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:20,039 exciting we don't need most of the I 714 00:29:24,590 --> 00:29:22,260 mean it's obviously a mixed bag one 715 00:29:27,169 --> 00:29:24,600 thing to keep in mind is the reports on 716 00:29:28,970 --> 00:29:27,179 unidentified objects correlate with 717 00:29:30,909 --> 00:29:28,980 population density if you do the 718 00:29:34,250 --> 00:29:30,919 statistics you see that very clearly 719 00:29:36,110 --> 00:29:34,260 There Are Places on the globe where more 720 00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:36,120 people are monitoring the sky are the 721 00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:39,000 places where you hear more reports and 722 00:29:42,610 --> 00:29:40,559 that means that they are everywhere 723 00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:42,620 because otherwise you won't just get a 724 00:29:45,950 --> 00:29:44,640 one-to-one correlation with population 725 00:29:48,649 --> 00:29:45,960 density 726 00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:48,659 so it's clear that you know one thing 727 00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:52,080 that is everywhere is balloons balloons 728 00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:54,960 are everywhere either for meteorological 729 00:29:59,330 --> 00:29:57,360 purposes or just before because of I 730 00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:59,340 don't know perhaps parties or the 731 00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:02,159 government using balloons or at any 732 00:30:06,769 --> 00:30:04,320 event balloons are everywhere they make 733 00:30:08,450 --> 00:30:06,779 up at least half of the objects that 734 00:30:10,370 --> 00:30:08,460 were mentioned in the Director of 735 00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,380 National Intelligence report and 736 00:30:15,289 --> 00:30:12,480 obviously the US government shut the 737 00:30:17,090 --> 00:30:15,299 four of them down a few months ago so 738 00:30:19,610 --> 00:30:17,100 there are balloons in the sky and 739 00:30:22,430 --> 00:30:19,620 obviously there would be also drones and 740 00:30:24,409 --> 00:30:22,440 airplanes and birds and so the only 741 00:30:26,750 --> 00:30:24,419 question as far as I'm concerned is 742 00:30:29,810 --> 00:30:26,760 whether there is anything else I'm sure 743 00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:29,820 it's a mixed bag I'm sure the data is 744 00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:32,340 very poor but from the point of view of 745 00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:34,140 a scientist the fundamental question is 746 00:30:39,409 --> 00:30:37,679 there one object or more that is of 747 00:30:42,590 --> 00:30:39,419 extraterrestrial origin so we just want 748 00:30:44,330 --> 00:30:42,600 to find that one or more and of course 749 00:30:45,529 --> 00:30:44,340 the government needs to figure out most 750 00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:45,539 of them because they are National 751 00:30:49,549 --> 00:30:48,240 Security do threat absolutely now that 752 00:30:52,190 --> 00:30:49,559 makes a lot of sense 753 00:30:54,110 --> 00:30:52,200 so you recently co-authored a paper with 754 00:30:56,090 --> 00:30:54,120 Sean Kirkpatrick director of air out 755 00:30:57,950 --> 00:30:56,100 that was picked up by the media and as 756 00:31:00,169 --> 00:30:57,960 so often happens they ran with the most 757 00:31:01,850 --> 00:31:00,179 Sensational possible headline which was 758 00:31:03,649 --> 00:31:01,860 something along the lines of Harvard 759 00:31:05,570 --> 00:31:03,659 astrophysicist says that there could be 760 00:31:08,029 --> 00:31:05,580 a Mothership hiding in our solar system 761 00:31:09,830 --> 00:31:08,039 now having read the paper it was clear 762 00:31:11,810 --> 00:31:09,840 to me that while you were presenting 763 00:31:13,549 --> 00:31:11,820 that as a possibility the argument that 764 00:31:15,529 --> 00:31:13,559 you were making was much more nuanced 765 00:31:17,090 --> 00:31:15,539 than that can you talk a little bit 766 00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:17,100 about what your attention was with that 767 00:31:22,610 --> 00:31:19,440 paper and what you were trying to convey 768 00:31:24,590 --> 00:31:22,620 Yeah so basically Sean wrote to me that 769 00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:24,600 he's visiting the area and asked to 770 00:31:29,330 --> 00:31:26,940 visit my home and I should say that 771 00:31:32,090 --> 00:31:29,340 since the pandemic started my book 772 00:31:34,250 --> 00:31:32,100 appeared in January 2021 called the 773 00:31:37,549 --> 00:31:34,260 Extraterrestrial it had it was 774 00:31:40,909 --> 00:31:37,559 translated to 25 languages 28 editions 775 00:31:43,310 --> 00:31:40,919 and I had about 2500 interviews since 776 00:31:46,010 --> 00:31:43,320 then over the past couple of years just 777 00:31:49,130 --> 00:31:46,020 last week I had the 20 requests from 778 00:31:51,529 --> 00:31:49,140 filmmakers and documentary producers to 779 00:31:53,570 --> 00:31:51,539 document my research I had also a 780 00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:53,580 playwright who wrote to me a couple of 781 00:31:58,610 --> 00:31:56,880 weeks ago with the title available on 782 00:32:03,169 --> 00:31:58,620 Broadway that was the title of his email 783 00:32:05,630 --> 00:32:03,179 and already writing a play that he hopes 784 00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:05,640 to get on Broadway and so there is a lot 785 00:32:10,190 --> 00:32:07,679 of there are lots of things happening 786 00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:10,200 and among those visitors of course were 787 00:32:15,710 --> 00:32:13,200 the ones that donated funds to the that 788 00:32:18,110 --> 00:32:15,720 established the girl project but also 789 00:32:20,269 --> 00:32:18,120 the expedition that was funded at one 790 00:32:23,149 --> 00:32:20,279 and a half million dollars and so I'm 791 00:32:25,010 --> 00:32:23,159 used to people coming to my home and 792 00:32:28,430 --> 00:32:25,020 then so when he asked I said of course 793 00:32:29,330 --> 00:32:28,440 and then during his visit he mentioned 794 00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:29,340 that 795 00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:34,320 uses what we know about physics and puts 796 00:32:39,769 --> 00:32:36,960 constraints on unidentified area 797 00:32:42,590 --> 00:32:39,779 phenomena where we might not have the 798 00:32:45,169 --> 00:32:42,600 full data on obviously when you have 799 00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:45,179 anecdotal reports from the past the data 800 00:32:50,269 --> 00:32:47,039 is incomplete nobody expected those 801 00:32:52,669 --> 00:32:50,279 objects so we wrote the paper and in the 802 00:32:55,070 --> 00:32:52,679 introduction I mentioned the the 803 00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:55,080 possibility of a Mothership that 804 00:33:00,649 --> 00:32:58,080 releases probes and that was inspired by 805 00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:00,659 the appearance of omuamua and the second 806 00:33:07,130 --> 00:33:04,080 Interstellar meteorite checked their 807 00:33:09,470 --> 00:33:07,140 parameters and realized that they had 808 00:33:12,529 --> 00:33:09,480 the same distance of closest approach to 809 00:33:16,130 --> 00:33:12,539 the sun they were separated by seven 810 00:33:19,549 --> 00:33:16,140 months and they also had the same speed 811 00:33:22,430 --> 00:33:19,559 far away from the Sun and that led me to 812 00:33:25,130 --> 00:33:22,440 consider the possibility that maybe the 813 00:33:27,649 --> 00:33:25,140 meteor was a small probe roughly a meter 814 00:33:30,049 --> 00:33:27,659 in size that was released from a 815 00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:30,059 Mothership or muamua that was 816 00:33:34,909 --> 00:33:33,120 200 times bigger but then I checked and 817 00:33:37,070 --> 00:33:34,919 it turns out that they didn't originate 818 00:33:39,049 --> 00:33:37,080 from the same direction in the sky so 819 00:33:40,669 --> 00:33:39,059 they couldn't have been related but 820 00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:40,679 nevertheless in the introduction we 821 00:33:45,049 --> 00:33:42,960 mentioned that possibility because it 822 00:33:48,169 --> 00:33:45,059 makes a lot of sense to release small 823 00:33:50,269 --> 00:33:48,179 probes if you wanted to visit the 824 00:33:52,370 --> 00:33:50,279 planets in the habitable zone that 825 00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:52,380 allows you to go to many places not just 826 00:33:57,529 --> 00:33:54,720 one with a big spacecraft 827 00:33:59,389 --> 00:33:57,539 and that led to a lot of speculation by 828 00:34:01,970 --> 00:33:59,399 people but it was just a matter of 829 00:34:04,130 --> 00:34:01,980 thinking about one possibility and the 830 00:34:06,529 --> 00:34:04,140 other thing is we know that some of the 831 00:34:09,649 --> 00:34:06,539 reports involved objects that went from 832 00:34:12,889 --> 00:34:09,659 air to water and you can imagine water 833 00:34:15,710 --> 00:34:12,899 being fueled for Interstellar spacecraft 834 00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:15,720 in fact I wrote about it in a recent 835 00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:18,960 essay that I posted on medium.com just a 836 00:34:24,649 --> 00:34:21,839 couple of days ago how water can be used 837 00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:24,659 as a rocket fuel and it could be useful 838 00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:27,839 for us when we go to Mars or the moon 839 00:34:33,290 --> 00:34:30,960 when we build sustainable human bases 840 00:34:36,349 --> 00:34:33,300 there so we need to keep that in mind 841 00:34:38,750 --> 00:34:36,359 because that could be a motivation for a 842 00:34:41,629 --> 00:34:38,760 probe to arrive to the habitable zone of 843 00:34:44,869 --> 00:34:41,639 around Stars where there is liquid water 844 00:34:46,430 --> 00:34:44,879 that can serve as fuel at any event we 845 00:34:50,450 --> 00:34:46,440 just talked about General constraints 846 00:34:53,690 --> 00:34:50,460 that we can put on unidentified objects 847 00:34:56,930 --> 00:34:53,700 in the Earth's atmosphere and water and 848 00:34:58,730 --> 00:34:56,940 among them was the fact that if you 849 00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:58,740 don't know the distance to an object and 850 00:35:04,070 --> 00:35:00,720 you see the object moving fast across 851 00:35:07,070 --> 00:35:04,080 the sky you can tell based on physics as 852 00:35:09,050 --> 00:35:07,080 we know it that it must be closer to us 853 00:35:11,870 --> 00:35:09,060 than some distance because if it's very 854 00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:11,880 far it needs to move really fast in 855 00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:14,160 order to cross the sky and that would 856 00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:16,320 create a fireball as a result of the 857 00:35:21,290 --> 00:35:17,760 interaction with air 858 00:35:23,390 --> 00:35:21,300 the way we see it in meteors or in you 859 00:35:24,710 --> 00:35:23,400 know very very fast moving objects 860 00:35:26,990 --> 00:35:24,720 anywhere 861 00:35:29,089 --> 00:35:27,000 so that was this paper 862 00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:29,099 ah thank you so much that's a fantastic 863 00:35:33,890 --> 00:35:31,440 explanation so as you might imagine 864 00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:33,900 given the recent Senate hearings in your 865 00:35:37,550 --> 00:35:36,240 work with shocker Patrick one of the 866 00:35:39,170 --> 00:35:37,560 most common questions that I got from 867 00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,180 people had to do with your thoughts on 868 00:35:43,130 --> 00:35:41,280 the hearings I know that you can't speak 869 00:35:45,170 --> 00:35:43,140 on his behalf but what do you make of 870 00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:45,180 the fact that Kirkpatrick said quote 871 00:35:49,790 --> 00:35:48,000 Aero has found no credible evidence thus 872 00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:49,800 far of extraterrestrial activity 873 00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:52,020 off-world technology or objects that 874 00:35:56,750 --> 00:35:54,480 defy the known laws of physics despite 875 00:35:58,370 --> 00:35:56,760 the lack of a Smoking Gun is it your 876 00:36:00,589 --> 00:35:58,380 impression that the government regards 877 00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:00,599 the Extraterrestrial hypothesis as a 878 00:36:04,010 --> 00:36:02,400 legitimate potential explanation for the 879 00:36:06,530 --> 00:36:04,020 UFO phenomenon 880 00:36:08,569 --> 00:36:06,540 yeah I think the government has objects 881 00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:08,579 that they cannot identify it's because 882 00:36:16,250 --> 00:36:12,000 the data is incomplete and in fact I was 883 00:36:18,170 --> 00:36:16,260 in November 2021 I attended the Forum at 884 00:36:19,970 --> 00:36:18,180 the Washington National Cathedral with 885 00:36:22,490 --> 00:36:19,980 Avril Haynes the Director of National 886 00:36:25,730 --> 00:36:22,500 Intelligence and Jeff Bezos the founder 887 00:36:28,069 --> 00:36:25,740 of blue Origins and in the green room I 888 00:36:29,690 --> 00:36:28,079 approached Avril Haynes and I said you 889 00:36:32,030 --> 00:36:29,700 just delivered six months ago you 890 00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:32,040 delivered the report to the US Congress 891 00:36:37,970 --> 00:36:35,040 about UAP is what do you think they are 892 00:36:39,890 --> 00:36:37,980 and I asked her because she was trained 893 00:36:42,410 --> 00:36:39,900 as a physicist for a bachelor's degree 894 00:36:44,210 --> 00:36:42,420 at the University of Chicago and she 895 00:36:46,430 --> 00:36:44,220 said I don't know 896 00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:46,440 and I believe her you know I don't think 897 00:36:52,849 --> 00:36:50,160 that I don't think the government uh has 898 00:36:54,829 --> 00:36:52,859 any conspiracies about this subject I 899 00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:54,839 just think they have data that is 900 00:36:59,450 --> 00:36:57,599 inconclusive and they see things that 901 00:37:02,089 --> 00:36:59,460 are behaving in ways that they didn't 902 00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:02,099 expect and they cannot easily put them 903 00:37:06,829 --> 00:37:04,320 into a category into a pin of something 904 00:37:10,250 --> 00:37:06,839 that they are familiar with either U.S 905 00:37:12,410 --> 00:37:10,260 technological objects or adversaries 906 00:37:15,530 --> 00:37:12,420 because we pretty much know what the 907 00:37:17,450 --> 00:37:15,540 technologies that humans make are so 908 00:37:19,310 --> 00:37:17,460 they don't know what they are okay so 909 00:37:21,170 --> 00:37:19,320 and the government is not a scientific 910 00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:21,180 organization they are mostly focused on 911 00:37:25,790 --> 00:37:23,520 National Security concerns so the 912 00:37:26,930 --> 00:37:25,800 easiest thing for them to say is forget 913 00:37:29,089 --> 00:37:26,940 about it 914 00:37:31,370 --> 00:37:29,099 and that was the way it was it happened 915 00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:31,380 in decade over the past few decades 916 00:37:36,170 --> 00:37:34,079 where they would just ignore things that 917 00:37:38,270 --> 00:37:36,180 are not clearly a national security 918 00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:38,280 concern they would say we don't know 919 00:37:43,370 --> 00:37:40,380 what it is forget about it 920 00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:43,380 and now they want to figure it out I 921 00:37:48,829 --> 00:37:44,880 guess as a result of the Congress 922 00:37:51,170 --> 00:37:48,839 pressing on them and so they examine all 923 00:37:53,210 --> 00:37:51,180 these past reports more carefully more 924 00:37:56,510 --> 00:37:53,220 methodically that's what Sean talked 925 00:37:59,329 --> 00:37:56,520 about having two teams within Aero one 926 00:38:01,569 --> 00:37:59,339 of the intelligence experts the other 927 00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:01,579 one of scientists and Engineers that are 928 00:38:10,069 --> 00:38:05,760 expressing their ideas about what the 929 00:38:11,390 --> 00:38:10,079 data on particular cases of UAP what 930 00:38:13,550 --> 00:38:11,400 does it mean I mean what is the 931 00:38:16,190 --> 00:38:13,560 inference and then he Compares those 932 00:38:18,470 --> 00:38:16,200 inferences from the two teams and vets 933 00:38:20,030 --> 00:38:18,480 what is what sounds the most likely 934 00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:20,040 thing the problem with this approach as 935 00:38:24,170 --> 00:38:22,320 I said before is if you have limited 936 00:38:26,270 --> 00:38:24,180 data it wouldn't help much the experts 937 00:38:28,190 --> 00:38:26,280 can say whatever they want but you just 938 00:38:30,589 --> 00:38:28,200 don't have the tools to figure out what 939 00:38:33,530 --> 00:38:30,599 the object was because the data is 940 00:38:35,470 --> 00:38:33,540 limited and so they probably are doing 941 00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:35,480 the best they can and they do see 942 00:38:41,690 --> 00:38:37,440 objects that might be of National 943 00:38:43,609 --> 00:38:41,700 Security interest or mundane objects 944 00:38:46,130 --> 00:38:43,619 like balloons they probably see some of 945 00:38:47,569 --> 00:38:46,140 those and the rest that are the most 946 00:38:48,589 --> 00:38:47,579 interesting ones they don't know what 947 00:38:51,230 --> 00:38:48,599 they are 948 00:38:53,930 --> 00:38:51,240 so I think it would bring them to the 949 00:38:57,290 --> 00:38:53,940 same point that the Galileo project is 950 00:39:00,290 --> 00:38:57,300 already at which is to say okay in order 951 00:39:03,410 --> 00:39:00,300 to figure out what we have in the sky we 952 00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:03,420 better use equipment that is state of 953 00:39:08,329 --> 00:39:05,760 the art that we have full control over 954 00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:08,339 that we fully understand that we fully 955 00:39:14,089 --> 00:39:12,240 calibrate and do a systematic search for 956 00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:14,099 objects in the sky instead of just 957 00:39:18,710 --> 00:39:16,320 anecdotically you know seeing something 958 00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:18,720 unexpected not really planning for it 959 00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:20,880 having limited data because it was 960 00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:23,760 gathered by pilots in the cockpit of a 961 00:39:28,370 --> 00:39:25,440 fighter jet like that's not the best 962 00:39:30,349 --> 00:39:28,380 experiment to imagine pilots in the like 963 00:39:32,510 --> 00:39:30,359 or eyewitness testimonies how do you 964 00:39:34,490 --> 00:39:32,520 know what people saw I mean when people 965 00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:34,500 report about car accidents they give 966 00:39:38,329 --> 00:39:36,480 very different reports even though they 967 00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:38,339 saw the same event when people report 968 00:39:42,770 --> 00:39:41,280 about offside in a soccer match they say 969 00:39:46,069 --> 00:39:42,780 very different things depending on which 970 00:39:48,109 --> 00:39:46,079 team they they like and so we don't want 971 00:39:50,210 --> 00:39:48,119 to rely on on people we want to learn 972 00:39:51,890 --> 00:39:50,220 instruments so we have those instruments 973 00:39:54,230 --> 00:39:51,900 and it's not so expensive you know why 974 00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:54,240 and I just don't understand the approach 975 00:39:57,890 --> 00:39:56,160 that was taken in the past by people 976 00:39:59,630 --> 00:39:57,900 that were intrigued by these reports 977 00:40:01,010 --> 00:39:59,640 they were just saying either arguing 978 00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:01,020 that they know the answer even though 979 00:40:05,630 --> 00:40:03,599 the data doesn't look very convincing or 980 00:40:07,609 --> 00:40:05,640 they would dismiss it put the stigma on 981 00:40:10,010 --> 00:40:07,619 it and not even Explore it and that 982 00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:10,020 would believe the subject in the state 983 00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:12,000 that we find it today where we don't 984 00:40:15,950 --> 00:40:14,160 really know what these things are and 985 00:40:18,470 --> 00:40:15,960 then there are lots of speculations by 986 00:40:20,690 --> 00:40:18,480 believers who do not have the scientific 987 00:40:22,670 --> 00:40:20,700 expertise to infer what these objects 988 00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:22,680 are they just believe in it you know you 989 00:40:26,450 --> 00:40:24,480 can believe in anything you want you can 990 00:40:28,730 --> 00:40:26,460 believe that you are Napoleon 991 00:40:30,589 --> 00:40:28,740 I don't care you can insist that you are 992 00:40:32,870 --> 00:40:30,599 Napoleon you can even say I have an ID 993 00:40:35,450 --> 00:40:32,880 that shows the time but Napoleon is dead 994 00:40:37,310 --> 00:40:35,460 that I know so that would not hold water 995 00:40:38,930 --> 00:40:37,320 but you can say anything you want on 996 00:40:40,910 --> 00:40:38,940 objects that were observed in the past 997 00:40:42,290 --> 00:40:40,920 decades ago that for which we don't have 998 00:40:44,690 --> 00:40:42,300 enough evidence and you can argue 999 00:40:47,210 --> 00:40:44,700 forever about them my point is that this 1000 00:40:51,230 --> 00:40:47,220 is not a good way to spend your lives 1001 00:40:53,930 --> 00:40:51,240 a much better way in your energy is to 1002 00:40:56,030 --> 00:40:53,940 approach it like a kid basically say I 1003 00:40:58,370 --> 00:40:56,040 want to figure it out I want to get more 1004 00:41:01,370 --> 00:40:58,380 data I want to get to these objects and 1005 00:41:03,470 --> 00:41:01,380 collect better data than I hear about so 1006 00:41:05,329 --> 00:41:03,480 far that's the approach of a kid doesn't 1007 00:41:08,210 --> 00:41:05,339 pretend to know more than we actually 1008 00:41:10,370 --> 00:41:08,220 know and just goes ahead and collects 1009 00:41:11,810 --> 00:41:10,380 the information and that's the way the 1010 00:41:14,270 --> 00:41:11,820 Galileo project is approaching it 1011 00:41:16,130 --> 00:41:14,280 without prejudice and whatever we find 1012 00:41:18,770 --> 00:41:16,140 will be reported if it turns out that 1013 00:41:20,450 --> 00:41:18,780 all of these objects are balloons so be 1014 00:41:23,150 --> 00:41:20,460 it I think it will bring the subject to 1015 00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:23,160 rest and we wouldn't need to argue waste 1016 00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:25,200 time on it but on the other hand there 1017 00:41:29,569 --> 00:41:26,880 may be something else 1018 00:41:31,130 --> 00:41:29,579 that makes a lot of sense so one of the 1019 00:41:33,349 --> 00:41:31,140 most striking things about the hearings 1020 00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:33,359 was the fact that despite saying that 1021 00:41:36,470 --> 00:41:34,800 there is no credible evidence for 1022 00:41:38,210 --> 00:41:36,480 objects that defy the known laws of 1023 00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:38,220 physics Kirkpatrick showed the committee 1024 00:41:42,290 --> 00:41:39,839 a video of what appeared to be a 1025 00:41:43,970 --> 00:41:42,300 metallic spherical object with no means 1026 00:41:46,370 --> 00:41:43,980 of propulsion maneuvering through the 1027 00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:46,380 air so would your argument here be then 1028 00:41:51,410 --> 00:41:49,440 that this is the right approach because 1029 00:41:54,770 --> 00:41:51,420 they don't know conclusively what this 1030 00:41:56,210 --> 00:41:54,780 is and so to say that conclusively that 1031 00:41:57,710 --> 00:41:56,220 it's breaking the laws of physics would 1032 00:42:00,890 --> 00:41:57,720 just be overstepping without having 1033 00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:00,900 enough data yeah I think with respect to 1034 00:42:05,270 --> 00:42:02,880 the laws of physics the important point 1035 00:42:06,829 --> 00:42:05,280 to understand is in order to show that 1036 00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:06,839 something violates the laws of physics 1037 00:42:11,150 --> 00:42:09,119 which is definitely possible okay that's 1038 00:42:12,589 --> 00:42:11,160 what motivates most physicists I mean 1039 00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:12,599 they want to win the Nobel Prize for 1040 00:42:18,050 --> 00:42:15,200 finding something new but the point is 1041 00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:18,060 you have to have Exquisite data and 1042 00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:20,880 that's hard work you can't just see blog 1043 00:42:25,310 --> 00:42:23,760 about it or have a podcast interviews 1044 00:42:28,190 --> 00:42:25,320 where you say I believe there is no 1045 00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:28,200 physics that is not good enough you need 1046 00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:29,760 to demonstrate that the conventional 1047 00:42:34,310 --> 00:42:32,640 explanations for what you see do not 1048 00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:34,320 explain it because you have such good 1049 00:42:39,650 --> 00:42:37,200 data you pinpoint you can tell that 1050 00:42:41,390 --> 00:42:39,660 distance to the object and therefore you 1051 00:42:44,270 --> 00:42:41,400 can infer the speed of the object and 1052 00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:44,280 you can show that it's doing things that 1053 00:42:49,849 --> 00:42:48,000 cannot be explained by known physics you 1054 00:42:52,910 --> 00:42:49,859 need to do that you need to go an extra 1055 00:42:55,550 --> 00:42:52,920 mile and collect Exquisite data that 1056 00:42:57,890 --> 00:42:55,560 nobody can dispute and only then you can 1057 00:42:59,690 --> 00:42:57,900 claim new physics and what many people 1058 00:43:02,510 --> 00:42:59,700 in the public do not understand they 1059 00:43:06,109 --> 00:43:02,520 think oh if we see a hole in the clouds 1060 00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:06,119 or it may be a wormhole it may be a path 1061 00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:07,920 through which you can exceed the speed 1062 00:43:12,050 --> 00:43:09,839 of light why not I see a hole in the 1063 00:43:13,609 --> 00:43:12,060 cloud of course it could be that but the 1064 00:43:16,010 --> 00:43:13,619 hole in the cloud is most likely a 1065 00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:16,020 meteorological phenomenon you know that 1066 00:43:20,450 --> 00:43:18,480 has to do with the way air flows in the 1067 00:43:22,730 --> 00:43:20,460 atmosphere has nothing to do with a 1068 00:43:24,650 --> 00:43:22,740 wormhole a wormhole we don't even know 1069 00:43:26,930 --> 00:43:24,660 that the Wormhole solution to Einstein's 1070 00:43:29,450 --> 00:43:26,940 equations is a valid one so talking 1071 00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:29,460 about new physics just because you see a 1072 00:43:32,990 --> 00:43:30,960 hole in the clouds it's completely 1073 00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:33,000 irresponsible 1074 00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:35,760 so obviously if you have good enough 1075 00:43:39,710 --> 00:43:37,920 data you can argue something is doing 1076 00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:39,720 things that cannot be explained by 1077 00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:42,240 non-physics but you have to do the work 1078 00:43:48,050 --> 00:43:45,839 it's very hard work and you can't just 1079 00:43:49,970 --> 00:43:48,060 sit back on your seat and say oh I think 1080 00:43:51,890 --> 00:43:49,980 it's this or that that is not the way 1081 00:43:53,930 --> 00:43:51,900 science is done that's not the way by 1082 00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:53,940 which we acquire new knowledge about new 1083 00:43:58,190 --> 00:43:56,160 physics and many people do not 1084 00:44:01,130 --> 00:43:58,200 understand that they think that if there 1085 00:44:04,010 --> 00:44:01,140 is blurry images there is data that is 1086 00:44:06,050 --> 00:44:04,020 incomplete that is poor enough then I 1087 00:44:08,510 --> 00:44:06,060 can speculate whatever I want about it 1088 00:44:10,849 --> 00:44:08,520 and that would be good enough for me no 1089 00:44:12,410 --> 00:44:10,859 that's not good enough what it should 1090 00:44:15,530 --> 00:44:12,420 motivate I mean it could be that there 1091 00:44:17,870 --> 00:44:15,540 is no physics but to figure it out you 1092 00:44:20,089 --> 00:44:17,880 have to collect better data so basically 1093 00:44:22,190 --> 00:44:20,099 what I'm trying to say is that I was 1094 00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:22,200 intrigued by omuamua by the first 1095 00:44:27,170 --> 00:44:24,480 industrial objects and the conclusion 1096 00:44:28,730 --> 00:44:27,180 from that was not to say for sure that I 1097 00:44:31,130 --> 00:44:28,740 know that they were in interstellar 1098 00:44:33,410 --> 00:44:31,140 technological artifacts but to say that 1099 00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:33,420 they were possibly those things things 1100 00:44:38,270 --> 00:44:36,000 and to figure them out I need to collect 1101 00:44:40,609 --> 00:44:38,280 more data while my colleagues in 1102 00:44:43,490 --> 00:44:40,619 Academia were behaving just like those 1103 00:44:45,650 --> 00:44:43,500 believers they were on the opposite end 1104 00:44:47,329 --> 00:44:45,660 and saying oh we don't need the 1105 00:44:49,069 --> 00:44:47,339 additional data these must be rocks 1106 00:44:50,690 --> 00:44:49,079 forget about it so they were saying 1107 00:44:52,609 --> 00:44:50,700 forget about it the people that are 1108 00:44:54,410 --> 00:44:52,619 believers say I know what they are 1109 00:44:56,750 --> 00:44:54,420 forget about it everyone says forget 1110 00:44:58,970 --> 00:44:56,760 about it nobody takes the data that's 1111 00:45:01,550 --> 00:44:58,980 the reason we are at the point where we 1112 00:45:03,410 --> 00:45:01,560 are where we don't really know what uaps 1113 00:45:05,809 --> 00:45:03,420 are what these Interstellar objects are 1114 00:45:08,030 --> 00:45:05,819 and I'm saying the only way to make 1115 00:45:10,010 --> 00:45:08,040 progress in our knowledge is to collect 1116 00:45:12,349 --> 00:45:10,020 better data so I'm sufficiently 1117 00:45:13,730 --> 00:45:12,359 intrigued to do that because my 1118 00:45:16,730 --> 00:45:13,740 colleagues in Academia are not doing 1119 00:45:18,410 --> 00:45:16,740 that and the public who claims they know 1120 00:45:20,809 --> 00:45:18,420 you know those people who claim they 1121 00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:20,819 know something about new physics they 1122 00:45:25,609 --> 00:45:22,800 also don't do the work the hard work to 1123 00:45:27,230 --> 00:45:25,619 collect new data so these are all lazy 1124 00:45:28,910 --> 00:45:27,240 positions to take where you don't do 1125 00:45:31,250 --> 00:45:28,920 anything you just argue what you think 1126 00:45:32,930 --> 00:45:31,260 these things are just like in politics 1127 00:45:34,970 --> 00:45:32,940 you know you have the two extremes for 1128 00:45:37,250 --> 00:45:34,980 arise each of them is pushing the other 1129 00:45:38,569 --> 00:45:37,260 side and I say that's not the way to 1130 00:45:40,970 --> 00:45:38,579 make progress the way to make progress 1131 00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:40,980 is through the hard work of the Galileo 1132 00:45:45,650 --> 00:45:43,200 project building instruments that will 1133 00:45:47,630 --> 00:45:45,660 collect better data and bring us to the 1134 00:45:50,030 --> 00:45:47,640 truth I appreciate that 1135 00:45:53,150 --> 00:45:50,040 so a question that we got a lot from 1136 00:45:55,490 --> 00:45:53,160 people also was because of the paper 1137 00:45:57,170 --> 00:45:55,500 that you did with Sean Kirkpatrick and 1138 00:45:59,210 --> 00:45:57,180 some of the collaboration between the 1139 00:46:01,670 --> 00:45:59,220 Galileo project and arrow some people 1140 00:46:03,230 --> 00:46:01,680 have expressed concern that the Galileo 1141 00:46:05,569 --> 00:46:03,240 project might in some way get rolled 1142 00:46:08,450 --> 00:46:05,579 into arrow in a way that might then 1143 00:46:10,609 --> 00:46:08,460 subject you to a classification system 1144 00:46:12,530 --> 00:46:10,619 that would restrict you from independent 1145 00:46:13,970 --> 00:46:12,540 reporting to the public is that 1146 00:46:15,950 --> 00:46:13,980 something that people should be 1147 00:46:17,450 --> 00:46:15,960 concerned about or are there firewalls 1148 00:46:19,849 --> 00:46:17,460 in place to prevent that sort of thing 1149 00:46:22,670 --> 00:46:19,859 from happening this is an excellent 1150 00:46:26,030 --> 00:46:22,680 question and personally I don't want to 1151 00:46:28,190 --> 00:46:26,040 sign any NDA because it will restrict my 1152 00:46:31,609 --> 00:46:28,200 ability to function as a scientist to 1153 00:46:34,190 --> 00:46:31,619 basically obtain the new data even you 1154 00:46:36,670 --> 00:46:34,200 know if I see classify data even if I 1155 00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:36,680 happen to reproduce that data with 1156 00:46:41,569 --> 00:46:39,119 unclassified sensors with the Galileo 1157 00:46:44,210 --> 00:46:41,579 project that will always be this cloud 1158 00:46:48,290 --> 00:46:44,220 of the concern that the government May 1159 00:46:50,510 --> 00:46:48,300 argue that I reveal Secrets uh despite 1160 00:46:52,370 --> 00:46:50,520 the fact that it was connect you know 1161 00:46:55,250 --> 00:46:52,380 the same data was collected by 1162 00:46:58,010 --> 00:46:55,260 unclassified sensors and as a result I 1163 00:47:00,410 --> 00:46:58,020 prefer not to look at any classified 1164 00:47:03,410 --> 00:47:00,420 data it's up to me you know we have free 1165 00:47:06,109 --> 00:47:03,420 will I don't want to sign on any 1166 00:47:08,750 --> 00:47:06,119 classified data and not to see anything 1167 00:47:10,609 --> 00:47:08,760 so that I can operate as a scientist 1168 00:47:14,809 --> 00:47:10,619 with open data the public will see 1169 00:47:18,050 --> 00:47:14,819 whatever we find and that is my take on 1170 00:47:20,030 --> 00:47:18,060 it and as a result you know Arrow will 1171 00:47:23,569 --> 00:47:20,040 not share with us any classified 1172 00:47:26,270 --> 00:47:23,579 information and I see the more it I mean 1173 00:47:28,130 --> 00:47:26,280 this kind of partnership with what the 1174 00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:28,140 government is doing more of an 1175 00:47:33,470 --> 00:47:30,000 intellectual partnership where they are 1176 00:47:35,809 --> 00:47:33,480 interested mostly in objects that might 1177 00:47:38,750 --> 00:47:35,819 be a national security threat okay and 1178 00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:38,760 we don't care about those at all and so 1179 00:47:43,490 --> 00:47:41,280 what we are looking for is knowledge 1180 00:47:45,050 --> 00:47:43,500 that can be shared with all humans 1181 00:47:46,910 --> 00:47:45,060 that's called scientific knowledge 1182 00:47:49,790 --> 00:47:46,920 science is all about sharing knowledge 1183 00:47:52,130 --> 00:47:49,800 sharing data the government is mostly 1184 00:47:54,290 --> 00:47:52,140 interested in National Security concerns 1185 00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:54,300 and that means that they want to learn 1186 00:47:58,609 --> 00:47:56,160 more about what other nations are 1187 00:48:00,470 --> 00:47:58,619 producing and and that's exactly the 1188 00:48:02,210 --> 00:48:00,480 opposite they want to it to be 1189 00:48:04,609 --> 00:48:02,220 classified and not open to the pub 1190 00:48:07,130 --> 00:48:04,619 public and so forth and so what I'm 1191 00:48:10,490 --> 00:48:07,140 saying is we are interested in different 1192 00:48:12,950 --> 00:48:10,500 parts of the pie of data and therefore 1193 00:48:16,010 --> 00:48:12,960 we can work in parallel I mean I don't 1194 00:48:17,990 --> 00:48:16,020 see any conflict but I don't want to eat 1195 00:48:20,750 --> 00:48:18,000 their piece of the pie because it will 1196 00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:20,760 in a way prevent me from operating as a 1197 00:48:25,010 --> 00:48:23,040 free scientist on the piece that is 1198 00:48:28,309 --> 00:48:25,020 supposed to be shared with the public so 1199 00:48:30,050 --> 00:48:28,319 no worries I'm we are not going to be 1200 00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:30,060 acquired by government 1201 00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:32,400 amazing to hear thank you and one final 1202 00:48:37,309 --> 00:48:35,280 question if the Galileo project did find 1203 00:48:39,290 --> 00:48:37,319 evidence of extraterrestrial technology 1204 00:48:40,370 --> 00:48:39,300 what is your next move is that something 1205 00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:40,380 that would be shared with the public 1206 00:48:44,030 --> 00:48:42,000 immediately people are very curious 1207 00:48:46,010 --> 00:48:44,040 about what that process looks like 1208 00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:46,020 yeah I just need to make sure that we 1209 00:48:51,950 --> 00:48:49,440 are not a crying wolf right so that we 1210 00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:51,960 the statement we make is reliable that's 1211 00:48:56,809 --> 00:48:54,240 all and as soon as we figure this out 1212 00:48:58,430 --> 00:48:56,819 then it may take days it may take weeks 1213 00:49:00,710 --> 00:48:58,440 it may take a month I don't know how 1214 00:49:03,950 --> 00:49:00,720 long depending on what we find 1215 00:49:06,109 --> 00:49:03,960 you will hear from us as soon as we are 1216 00:49:07,790 --> 00:49:06,119 confident in what we are saying just to 1217 00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:07,800 make sure that we are not you know 1218 00:49:12,349 --> 00:49:10,319 misleading the public and that could 1219 00:49:14,809 --> 00:49:12,359 involve the Expedition it depends on 1220 00:49:16,609 --> 00:49:14,819 what we find out there and my main 1221 00:49:19,010 --> 00:49:16,619 concern is that we might not find 1222 00:49:22,430 --> 00:49:19,020 anything we'll come back empty-handed 1223 00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:22,440 and that's my nightmare scenario but if 1224 00:49:27,230 --> 00:49:24,960 we find something and we analyze it and 1225 00:49:29,089 --> 00:49:27,240 whatever we find will be known to the 1226 00:49:31,309 --> 00:49:29,099 public as soon as we are confident in 1227 00:49:33,290 --> 00:49:31,319 the results so just so that you know 1228 00:49:37,069 --> 00:49:33,300 with me what you see is what you get 1229 00:49:38,510 --> 00:49:37,079 that's who I am and when I served as the 1230 00:49:40,430 --> 00:49:38,520 chair of the astronomy department at 1231 00:49:43,970 --> 00:49:40,440 Harvard for nine years the longest 1232 00:49:46,130 --> 00:49:43,980 serving chair between 2011 2020 and on 1233 00:49:48,410 --> 00:49:46,140 the first few days when I started my 1234 00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:48,420 wife said that I will probably not last 1235 00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:50,400 very long because I'm straightforward 1236 00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:52,319 and people can see through me and I'm 1237 00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:54,960 transparent and she thought that the 1238 00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:57,359 politician needs to have some opacity 1239 00:50:02,630 --> 00:49:59,760 something so that allows the politician 1240 00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:02,640 to maneuver but I was always transparent 1241 00:50:07,130 --> 00:50:05,040 and it ended up being a great asset 1242 00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:07,140 because people around me always trusted 1243 00:50:10,490 --> 00:50:08,880 me and never suspected that I'm 1244 00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:10,500 misleading them I manipulate 1245 00:50:14,270 --> 00:50:12,960 manipulating them and I ended up being 1246 00:50:15,410 --> 00:50:14,280 the longest serving chair of the 1247 00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:15,420 astronomy Department because everyone 1248 00:50:20,270 --> 00:50:18,000 trusted me and knew what I was always 1249 00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:20,280 transparent about the goals and about 1250 00:50:25,609 --> 00:50:23,040 the way I operate so I apply now the 1251 00:50:27,950 --> 00:50:25,619 same approach in this context and what I 1252 00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:27,960 told you is what I am basically and 1253 00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:29,520 let's see whether we find anything 1254 00:50:34,370 --> 00:50:32,160 that'd be exciting and even if not at 1255 00:50:37,130 --> 00:50:34,380 least we tried you know that would be my 1256 00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:37,140 legacy trying and perhaps younger people 1257 00:50:41,930 --> 00:50:39,119 will find what I'm looking for if I 1258 00:50:43,730 --> 00:50:41,940 don't find it well Dr Lowe thank you so 1259 00:50:44,809 --> 00:50:43,740 much for your time today and thank you 1260 00:50:46,190 --> 00:50:44,819 so much for the work that you're doing 1261 00:50:47,690 --> 00:50:46,200 in this field it's been an absolute 1262 00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:47,700 honor speaking with you 1263 00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:49,920 thanks for having me great pleasure and 1264 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:51,599 I'll be glad to speak again if we find 1265 00:50:58,990 --> 00:50:52,170 something 1266 00:51:11,569 --> 00:50:59,000 [Music]